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	<title>Comments on: Tyke Provincial Schedules / Results</title>
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	<description>Everything you always wanted to know about, find out about or just talk about lacrosse.</description>
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		<title>By: m00nwater</title>
		<link>http://lacrosseinsidethegame.com/2008/08/02/tyke-provincial-schedules-results/#comment-8965</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[m00nwater]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lacrosseinsidethegame.wordpress.com/?p=1185#comment-8965</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anonymous, you are insinuating and assuming that officials are biased because they know someone on a team. I played varsity volleyball at Durham College and now referee their games, so does that mean that I always make sure I make calls in Durham&#039;s favour? Absolutely NOT!! Just because a referee knows people and hugs them after a game doesn&#039;t mean that the game will be unfair and biased. I chat with my old coach and usually hug him BEFORE the match starts, but it doesn&#039;t mean I bring that familiar feeling into the game. In any sport I am sure that each governing body of the officials has a code of conduct that referees must follow, usually including conduct that does not allow for the kind of behaviour that would be called &quot;biased&quot; or &quot;one-sided&quot;.

While the situation may have not been the most ideal, I don&#039;t think that referees, which I will point out, don&#039;t get paid huge sums of money and generally ref because they enjoy it and want to help kids (while giving up their own free time, keep in mind), would risk suspensions or being stripped of their badges just for a Tyke game.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous, you are insinuating and assuming that officials are biased because they know someone on a team. I played varsity volleyball at Durham College and now referee their games, so does that mean that I always make sure I make calls in Durham&#8217;s favour? Absolutely NOT!! Just because a referee knows people and hugs them after a game doesn&#8217;t mean that the game will be unfair and biased. I chat with my old coach and usually hug him BEFORE the match starts, but it doesn&#8217;t mean I bring that familiar feeling into the game. In any sport I am sure that each governing body of the officials has a code of conduct that referees must follow, usually including conduct that does not allow for the kind of behaviour that would be called &#8220;biased&#8221; or &#8220;one-sided&#8221;.</p>
<p>While the situation may have not been the most ideal, I don&#8217;t think that referees, which I will point out, don&#8217;t get paid huge sums of money and generally ref because they enjoy it and want to help kids (while giving up their own free time, keep in mind), would risk suspensions or being stripped of their badges just for a Tyke game.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Sellors</title>
		<link>http://lacrosseinsidethegame.com/2008/08/02/tyke-provincial-schedules-results/#comment-8954</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe Sellors]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lacrosseinsidethegame.wordpress.com/?p=1185#comment-8954</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for the good feedback guys, and yes, I do feel bad about it, but like I said before, there was nothing I could do about it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the good feedback guys, and yes, I do feel bad about it, but like I said before, there was nothing I could do about it.</p>
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		<title>By: m00nwater</title>
		<link>http://lacrosseinsidethegame.com/2008/08/02/tyke-provincial-schedules-results/#comment-8953</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[m00nwater]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lacrosseinsidethegame.wordpress.com/?p=1185#comment-8953</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well said Joe. I don&#039;t referee lax, but I do ref volleyball, so I know exactly where you stand and how you feel. I have been a vball player for over 20 years, and it was not until I because an official did I truly understand the game. It is a far different perspective to be an official than it is for a fan, player or coach. As a ref, you are trained to look for certain things that these other people involved may not realize. I challenge any player, coach or fan that thinks they knowthe game better than an official to pick up the whistle and rule book and go nuts. It takes years of training and a certain kind of person to be a good official. Your game management grows with you the more experience you gain, and as unfortunate as it may be, sometimes things get missed. We are, only human, after all. It is a very rare occasion that an official can turn the tide of a game, and when you do this as a ref, you feel horrible about it, as I am sure Joe does.

There is a reason why officials are hard to find and to retain. It is easier to be an observer than it is to make decisions regarding game management. This is certainly something that will help Joe in his development as an official and make him an even better official than he was before the game started.

I always welcome feedback from spectators and coaches after a match ends as it helps in my own development. It is not constructive to a ref to tell him that his calls were horrendous, and in fact, I am sure Joe made some very good calls the entire weekend that nobody even bothered to comment on. The fact that he could state that he left the crease violation as a non-call for the sake of game management proves to me that he was very focussed on the game and does not deserve the critcism that is stemming from ignorance.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said Joe. I don&#8217;t referee lax, but I do ref volleyball, so I know exactly where you stand and how you feel. I have been a vball player for over 20 years, and it was not until I because an official did I truly understand the game. It is a far different perspective to be an official than it is for a fan, player or coach. As a ref, you are trained to look for certain things that these other people involved may not realize. I challenge any player, coach or fan that thinks they knowthe game better than an official to pick up the whistle and rule book and go nuts. It takes years of training and a certain kind of person to be a good official. Your game management grows with you the more experience you gain, and as unfortunate as it may be, sometimes things get missed. We are, only human, after all. It is a very rare occasion that an official can turn the tide of a game, and when you do this as a ref, you feel horrible about it, as I am sure Joe does.</p>
<p>There is a reason why officials are hard to find and to retain. It is easier to be an observer than it is to make decisions regarding game management. This is certainly something that will help Joe in his development as an official and make him an even better official than he was before the game started.</p>
<p>I always welcome feedback from spectators and coaches after a match ends as it helps in my own development. It is not constructive to a ref to tell him that his calls were horrendous, and in fact, I am sure Joe made some very good calls the entire weekend that nobody even bothered to comment on. The fact that he could state that he left the crease violation as a non-call for the sake of game management proves to me that he was very focussed on the game and does not deserve the critcism that is stemming from ignorance.</p>
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		<title>By: Lax Fan</title>
		<link>http://lacrosseinsidethegame.com/2008/08/02/tyke-provincial-schedules-results/#comment-8950</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lax Fan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lacrosseinsidethegame.wordpress.com/?p=1185#comment-8950</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By the way, to the &quot;Anonymous&quot; who eluded that the Brantford Pee Wee&#039;s were shown favourtism by the refs during the provincials, check the OLA Minor Lacrosse Forum post reply regarding when the last time a Brantford team won provincials by &quot;Really Old Timer&quot;- 1968 Tyke C.  This person lost against a Brantford team with Wayne Gretzky on it!  And by the way, none of the refs our team had at the provincials we have ever seen before!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, to the &#8220;Anonymous&#8221; who eluded that the Brantford Pee Wee&#8217;s were shown favourtism by the refs during the provincials, check the OLA Minor Lacrosse Forum post reply regarding when the last time a Brantford team won provincials by &#8220;Really Old Timer&#8221;- 1968 Tyke C.  This person lost against a Brantford team with Wayne Gretzky on it!  And by the way, none of the refs our team had at the provincials we have ever seen before!</p>
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		<title>By: Lax Fan</title>
		<link>http://lacrosseinsidethegame.com/2008/08/02/tyke-provincial-schedules-results/#comment-8949</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lax Fan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lacrosseinsidethegame.wordpress.com/?p=1185#comment-8949</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kudos to Joe for his well written post.  As I stated earlier, some of the best ref&#039;s my son&#039;s team had at the Pee Wee provincials were young refs.  Thank you to all of the officials who want &quot;the kids to have a safe and fair game&quot; because without you, we wouldn&#039;t be able to watch our children play this great game.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kudos to Joe for his well written post.  As I stated earlier, some of the best ref&#8217;s my son&#8217;s team had at the Pee Wee provincials were young refs.  Thank you to all of the officials who want &#8220;the kids to have a safe and fair game&#8221; because without you, we wouldn&#8217;t be able to watch our children play this great game.</p>
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		<title>By: marksy</title>
		<link>http://lacrosseinsidethegame.com/2008/08/02/tyke-provincial-schedules-results/#comment-8946</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[marksy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 04:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lacrosseinsidethegame.wordpress.com/?p=1185#comment-8946</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey Joe,

First, I want to thank you for coming on here to explain the situation as you saw it unfold.  You did not need to do it, but I believe your passion for the game and desire to do a good job is what made you do it.

I think sometimes we all as parents, Coaches and even players  (to a degree), forget your point about being human and making mistakes.  I have done your job and I&#039;m always amazed at how magnified any errors are that referees make.  I usually do not see Coaches or parents in a Peewee game go off on a player / goalie / Coach when they make a mistake like they go off on the referee (I said usually).

I hope everyone out there does take your words and at least try to understand the shoes you walk in.

For those that cannot, so be it.  But please everyone, understand that if you would like to comment on Joe&#039;s post, by all means speak, ask a question, whatever.

But do not come on here with the intent to bash, or your post will be deleted.  Joe is a young referee, trying to get better and I think it took a lot of you know what to do this.  At least respect the young man for doing that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Joe,</p>
<p>First, I want to thank you for coming on here to explain the situation as you saw it unfold.  You did not need to do it, but I believe your passion for the game and desire to do a good job is what made you do it.</p>
<p>I think sometimes we all as parents, Coaches and even players  (to a degree), forget your point about being human and making mistakes.  I have done your job and I&#8217;m always amazed at how magnified any errors are that referees make.  I usually do not see Coaches or parents in a Peewee game go off on a player / goalie / Coach when they make a mistake like they go off on the referee (I said usually).</p>
<p>I hope everyone out there does take your words and at least try to understand the shoes you walk in.</p>
<p>For those that cannot, so be it.  But please everyone, understand that if you would like to comment on Joe&#8217;s post, by all means speak, ask a question, whatever.</p>
<p>But do not come on here with the intent to bash, or your post will be deleted.  Joe is a young referee, trying to get better and I think it took a lot of you know what to do this.  At least respect the young man for doing that.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Sellors</title>
		<link>http://lacrosseinsidethegame.com/2008/08/02/tyke-provincial-schedules-results/#comment-8945</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe Sellors]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 03:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lacrosseinsidethegame.wordpress.com/?p=1185#comment-8945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Helllo,

I&#039;m the tall official that refereed the St. Catherines Whitby Game.
First of all I&#039;d like to say I&#039;ve read a lot of interesting comments on this website. For those of you who think that only adults can call a good game, you are mistaken, most young officials today have grown up playing the sport and know the rules very well. So don&#039;t be so quick to judge just based on age. Also, you have to realize that the officials at Peewee Provincials are there to learn for the most part, it is a younger division, you cannot expect to have phenominal referees to just spawn out of thin air, they must be coached, and brought up to be good officials, most people don&#039;t realize just how hard it is being out on the floor making the calls as they come. 

Now back to the &#039;B&#039; Semi Finals between Whitby #2 and St. Catherines #1. Whitby had possession in St. Catherines&#039; end and shot on goal, however the ball missed the net and started rolling back into Whitby&#039;s end. A player from each team started chasing after the ball, which eventually made it&#039;s way into the corner of Whitby&#039;s end. The two players fought for possession, and in doing so, the St. Catherines player DID step into the crease while going for the ball, however, game management wise I let it go. The St. Catherines&#039; player came out of the corner with possession and as he made the shot on net, the 30-second buzzer sounded before the ball had entered the net. As the lead ref, I was totally focused on the play and called what I saw and heard, the buzzer went before the ball went in the net, therefore that&#039;s no goal and that is all I signalled, not a crease violation, nor a minor intereference call. However, it is not solely my fault, my partner, the trail referee, never blew the play down to tell me that there was supposed to be a reset on the play, and the timekeeper never reset the clock when the St. Catherines player got possession of the ball. Both of these things should have happened, but since neither did, play continued with Whitby possession, and they went up the floor to score. After I reported the goal, the St. Catherines&#039; player came to me and pointed out that it was Whitby&#039;s Shot Clock, not theirs. I quickly realized this and called my partner over to confirm what i feared. At this point folks, its too late to do anything, I would have had to been informed during that play, not after the ofther team has already taken the ball down the floor and scored. 

That doesn&#039;t go to say that I don&#039;t feel bad about what happened.  As a ref, I want to be out there to ensure the kids have a safe and fair game, and I do that to the best of my abilities. I admit, yes, I made a mistake, and I sincerely apologize for taking away the chance to win the provincials from St. Catherines. Now to say it was a horrendous call is a bit much, we are all human and make mistakes, and I don&#039;t think you could honestly say there was any other call in the game that either team disagreed with. 

And as most do very well, criticizing is a lot easier than doing, I would love to see any parent that thinks the ref is an idiot to get their Level 1 Referee Certification and stilll hold the same views.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Helllo,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m the tall official that refereed the St. Catherines Whitby Game.<br />
First of all I&#8217;d like to say I&#8217;ve read a lot of interesting comments on this website. For those of you who think that only adults can call a good game, you are mistaken, most young officials today have grown up playing the sport and know the rules very well. So don&#8217;t be so quick to judge just based on age. Also, you have to realize that the officials at Peewee Provincials are there to learn for the most part, it is a younger division, you cannot expect to have phenominal referees to just spawn out of thin air, they must be coached, and brought up to be good officials, most people don&#8217;t realize just how hard it is being out on the floor making the calls as they come. </p>
<p>Now back to the &#8216;B&#8217; Semi Finals between Whitby #2 and St. Catherines #1. Whitby had possession in St. Catherines&#8217; end and shot on goal, however the ball missed the net and started rolling back into Whitby&#8217;s end. A player from each team started chasing after the ball, which eventually made it&#8217;s way into the corner of Whitby&#8217;s end. The two players fought for possession, and in doing so, the St. Catherines player DID step into the crease while going for the ball, however, game management wise I let it go. The St. Catherines&#8217; player came out of the corner with possession and as he made the shot on net, the 30-second buzzer sounded before the ball had entered the net. As the lead ref, I was totally focused on the play and called what I saw and heard, the buzzer went before the ball went in the net, therefore that&#8217;s no goal and that is all I signalled, not a crease violation, nor a minor intereference call. However, it is not solely my fault, my partner, the trail referee, never blew the play down to tell me that there was supposed to be a reset on the play, and the timekeeper never reset the clock when the St. Catherines player got possession of the ball. Both of these things should have happened, but since neither did, play continued with Whitby possession, and they went up the floor to score. After I reported the goal, the St. Catherines&#8217; player came to me and pointed out that it was Whitby&#8217;s Shot Clock, not theirs. I quickly realized this and called my partner over to confirm what i feared. At this point folks, its too late to do anything, I would have had to been informed during that play, not after the ofther team has already taken the ball down the floor and scored. </p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t go to say that I don&#8217;t feel bad about what happened.  As a ref, I want to be out there to ensure the kids have a safe and fair game, and I do that to the best of my abilities. I admit, yes, I made a mistake, and I sincerely apologize for taking away the chance to win the provincials from St. Catherines. Now to say it was a horrendous call is a bit much, we are all human and make mistakes, and I don&#8217;t think you could honestly say there was any other call in the game that either team disagreed with. </p>
<p>And as most do very well, criticizing is a lot easier than doing, I would love to see any parent that thinks the ref is an idiot to get their Level 1 Referee Certification and stilll hold the same views.</p>
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		<title>By: marksy</title>
		<link>http://lacrosseinsidethegame.com/2008/08/02/tyke-provincial-schedules-results/#comment-8940</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[marksy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lacrosseinsidethegame.wordpress.com/?p=1185#comment-8940</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve, you are right.  I saw him today and asked him about the call, and he admitted that he messed up to me as well.

He said he was goin to come on here and say as much.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, you are right.  I saw him today and asked him about the call, and he admitted that he messed up to me as well.</p>
<p>He said he was goin to come on here and say as much.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://lacrosseinsidethegame.com/2008/08/02/tyke-provincial-schedules-results/#comment-8939</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:01:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lacrosseinsidethegame.wordpress.com/?p=1185#comment-8939</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The ref actually admitted that he had made a mistake to the St. Catharines coach, but seeing as the play continued there was nothing he could do to change the call.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ref actually admitted that he had made a mistake to the St. Catharines coach, but seeing as the play continued there was nothing he could do to change the call.</p>
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		<title>By: marksy</title>
		<link>http://lacrosseinsidethegame.com/2008/08/02/tyke-provincial-schedules-results/#comment-8929</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[marksy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 01:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lacrosseinsidethegame.wordpress.com/?p=1185#comment-8929</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve,

I recall the exact play you are talking about and recall it exactly as you stated (imagine that; two people saw the same play, the same way :) ).  

Anyway, I recall thinking to myself as the ref did not make any motion, was he confused by who had possession or was there some form of interference by one of the two players running down the floor battling for the ball?  It was a very fast chain of events but I saw no motionfrom him.

If it was a minor interference call, then he needed to indicate it and did not.  If it was confusion over possession, then you arebang on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>I recall the exact play you are talking about and recall it exactly as you stated (imagine that; two people saw the same play, the same way <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  ).  </p>
<p>Anyway, I recall thinking to myself as the ref did not make any motion, was he confused by who had possession or was there some form of interference by one of the two players running down the floor battling for the ball?  It was a very fast chain of events but I saw no motionfrom him.</p>
<p>If it was a minor interference call, then he needed to indicate it and did not.  If it was confusion over possession, then you arebang on.</p>
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